Giles Gray

Joined

• started 8 topics
• posted 345 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Giles Gray

• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  It really is amazing that no matter how comprehensively a position is debunked, it seems that denial will prevail.
  
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  SBF - "Their next manifesto should say: we don’t give a damn how you vote, we’ll decide what happen in Scotland regardless."

  Never has a statement been as self applicable...
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  "If she loses a second time, will you and Sturgeon accept it?"

  Ha! Maybe for a week or two.

  After that 'democracy' (or more correctly... the right to dismiss the democratic vote because it doesn't fit their political agenda) will be administered.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  "...democracy is on our side."

  The irony.

  The SNP wanted to overturn a democratic vote (that went against them) two years after a referendum over Scotland had just taken place. They also opposed and tried to overturn the results of the UK's democratic vote to exit the EU in 2016.

  They disregard two democratic decisions and then it's claimed that democracy is on their side.

  It is more accurate to say that the SNP respects democracy... but only if it suits their agenda. The rest of the time they treat democracy with utter contempt.

  I've never seen such a snivelling bunch of sore losers.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  " Should we stop having elections in Scotland if it doesn’t matter what we vote for."

  Certainly... if what is being voted for is casting aside a recent 'once in a lifetime' democratic vote.

  " Scotland does respect democracy. It voted to stay in the UK in 2014 and it did stay in the UK. That is democracy."

  I don't call abiding by a democratic vote for two years and then casting it aside at the first sign of change respecting democracy, especially when the vote was known to be once in a lifetime.

  Democracy would be respecting the results of that referendum for the appropriate term.

  "Scotland did not vote to give up any right over its future no matter what happens."

  No one is making that assertion. However, the SNP doesn't have carte blanch to change its mind at every whim.

  Scotland made a democratic vote and needs to honour the results of that democratic system.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  " If voting for a referendum doesn’t mean we have a referendum, should Scotland stop having elections?"

  The UK didn't vote for another referendum.

  Not all people voting for the SNP were voting for a second Scottish referendum. Brexit was the major factor in the UK elections. So there is no way of knowing if those who voted SNP were actually voting for another chance for independence.

  I think the SNP should stop adding things to an election that were not pertinent to a UK election vote.

  Riding the wave of Remain has backfired. Sturgeon was banking on using a Remain Coalition in order to overturn brexit and at the same time force through her agenda for a second Scottish referendum.

  It didn't happen. She now needs to respect the democratic vote made by the entire UK.

  If you can't respect democracy you can hardly complain about it.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  "If Scotland voting for another referendum is not good enough grounds for another referendum, should we stop having elections in Scotland? What’s the point?"

  And if you are not going to respect a democratic vote just because things move on then you are violating democracy and have no basis for complaint.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  " They lost the election in Scotland"

  Who cares! It was a UK election. The Tories won emphatically. That was the election that everyone in the UK, including Scotland, were voting for.

  The SNP pretending that they are already independent of the UK that Scotland voted to remain in back in 2014 is where the lack of respect for democracy lies.

  Take a hard look in the mirror before crying about the lack of democracy.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  "The SNP argued that the situation has changed and we deserve a say on our future in the new circumstances."

  And this is where the issue of democracy fails on the side of the SNP.

  The democratic vote is being violated just because things have moved on. What it means in practice is that democracy can be overruled at any whim whenever change happens. This will devalue and undermine democracy. It means the democratic vote means nothing, not even in the short term.

  Altered circumstances should have no bearing on the choices and decisions that people have made because it would be unfair for the people that the vote favoured, in this case the people of Scotland who wished to remain in the UK back in 2014.

  This has been the whole problem with Brexit. The minority wanted to undermine the democratic vote rather than respect it.

  Calling for another referendum so soon after having one in 2014 makes a mockery of democracy.

  The UK respects democracy. It is the SNP who are violating it.
• 
  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  LUHE - " But how many UK indy refs do you want?"

  ... and why should the UK honour another referendum any more than the one in 2014 that is now being undermined?